The Kaiser doctors are salaried from the pool of insurance premiums and provide service only to the Kaiser patients. Vida Healthcare said the figure was not representative of the company. Why are they so cross? 96 comments. Their incomes are fixed by the government. Everyone seems to be paid poorly compared to other countries. Law of supply and demand and all that - currently there are tens of thousands of nursing and doctor vacancies but the wage for nurses has seen a real terms cut of 12% and for doctors 22%. While I’m certainly not complaining about how much I make, important context should be considered when analyzing doctors’ wages. This makes little sense to me.There are uk students with top grades unable to gain a place in medical school because of limited numbers on courses.They meet the requirements to become doctors but we still bring in foreign doctors.It all comes down to cost and an unwillingness to invest in our young students in the UK. A doctor's very first job is £22,636 base pay - excluding any unsociable contract paybumps. They both require the same amount of college, experiences, testing, etc. With overhead expenses so high and reimbursement rates so low (if you can actually get the insurance company to pay, that is), doctors have to cram as many patient appointments into a single day as possible just to keep the lights on. I applaud the work of doctors and the fight for patient safety and the fight against unsafe hours. rent,food,bills etc.They have really long hours in comparison to other jobs the doctors I know work for more than 12 hours per day as they often stay longer in the hospital then they should what I mean is they are scheduled to leave at 8 and they leave at 10.As well as to get to medical schools is extremely hard I don't know any medical school that accepts anything below AAA.It is just shocking how hard it is to become one and let alone be one yet the money they get sounds like a huge amount to some but they are not doing 9 to 5 jobs.Their job is literally their life according to my doctor friends.My grandma is a doctor it is Christmas eve she is in the hospital it is Saturday,Sunday she is in the hospital working. Why? Everyone moans about working too hard and not getting paid enough. Rather than compare salary figures between the United States and countries with wholly dissimilar societies and … didn't get my visa yet but my plane leaves in a few days! Why us British are so boring compared to other cultures! I'm talking in terms of the value of the service they provide and how much it costs them to go to college. Doctors are usually among the top paid individuals in the United Kingdom. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE. One in six patients in hospital is there because they he or she has been made ill by a doctor. While there are plenty of football players, talents such as Messi are in short supply. save hide report. And it only goes up from there. Health workers can earn as little as 141,000 HUF or $520 per month (Lestyánszky, 2015). I don't know why we act like we should be entitled to more than our comfort when many people are working far harder and scraping by on far less. I, however, am happy being comfortable in a place I enjoy, in a system that I know is working hard to provide patient care to patients who I care about. In the UK though, I only get 17£ K for the role. Not really sure what the reason is, but I would like to tell you the difference between the same industry in the uk and when I worked in the US. I saw that nurses in the UK earn about half (or less) than American nurses. That being said, look at the number of UK qualified doctors moving to places like Australia and New Zealand and you'll see that people are unhappy with the current situation. That is why so many doctors from third world countries come to the USA in spite of humiliating re-evaluations. The coronavirus pandemic is forcing America to confront its epidemic low-wage problem. Should key workers be given a significant pay rise after Covid-19? If you look at the NHS as a whole, there's not a lot of money going spare. A doctor's very first job is £22,636 base pay - excluding any unsociable contract paybumps. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. There are now more administrators in British hospitals than there are nurses. Paramedics are able to do advanced procedures that RNs can't. Basic salary for junior doctors starts at about £23,000 but increases in the second year to about £28,000 (Pay for doctors - NHS Careers). There are more … In 2015/16 the UK’s proportion of foreign-born doctors and nurses was exceeded by Ireland and Luxembourg. Answer Save. Junior doctors preparing to walk out on their second 24-hour strike fear contract changes proposed by the Government will give them a pay cut – but how much are they really paid? 1. Official Cambridge 2021 Applicants thread Mk II, *MEGATHREAD* Medicine 2021 Interviews discussion, Official University of Edinburgh 2021 applicant thread, Official LSE Postgraduate Applicants 2021 Thread. Yes, when you factor in the overtime, it's a pretty poor starting salary (less than minimum wage, I believe). Amidst this morning's reports about doctors' salaries, the Patient Concern group supposedly claimed that doctors in Britain were among the best paid in the world. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the UKHealthcare community. The BMA's junior doctors' committee announced in August that it was withdrawing from talks with the government over proposals … @anon23743: Lawyers affect life just as doctors do? The fight for fairness in NHS jobs continues.. In addition to Doctor locum being good, nurses are actively discouraged to seek better pay by doing agency work. The government has a duty to the taxpayer to get value for money in healthcare. It's an absolute privilege to do what I do and to be able to make a living doing it. In 2004, specialists worldwide averaged salaries of $113,000 USD and general practitioners made $83,000 USD. An economist argues this residency system is a key reason why U.S. doctors are paid around twice much as doctors … After all, doctors in the US are not exactly badly paid. Becoming a doctor in the UK then going to Dubai? And doctors and hospitals deliberately create waiting lists (a phenomenon virtually unknown outside the UK) so that there is a market for their private services. Why are doctors paid so poorly in the UK in comparison to other countries? But I don't need anyone to make me sound like the victim because I'm fine. Zdenko Zivkovic/Flickr , CC BY So what are the likely causes of variations in doctors’ incomes? It's a supply and demand thing. anon249999 February 23, 2012 . In terms of all European countries (including those not in the OECD), the only countries that may have a lower wage for doctors are Romania and Bulgaria (MEDLINES – Medical Headlines, 2013). Consider this comparison of doctors vs UPS drivers 2. (Irish) How do you pronounce 'Magherafelt'? The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd. Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. Yes, many US doctors make a great deal more than UK doctors because their salaries are just that: salaries. A kind, competent physician, his new, fledgling practice consisted of reconstructive surgery. Well yeah, British people are frugal when it comes to money. 70 votes, 96 comments. The number of people going to see the doctor with influenza-like illness is higher than any year since 2010-11 but the rate is still considered "moderate" by health experts. Some medics say conditions can be nightmarish. Several aspects to the answer: 1. Doctors attend college and medical school for eight to ten years after high school. But it's plenty enough to live on. Why are doctors and lawyers paid so little? I am a first year dental student and know half the 3rd years biomed … The demand for talented football players is high as they increase the team’s chances of winning titles. How do we reinvigorate one of the noblest workforces on whom so many lives depend? (Start typing, we will pick a forum for you), Taking a break or withdrawing from your course, Why are doctors paid so poorly in the UK in comparison to other countries?(NHS). I think we are the highest earning professional group. We're so reserved!! Written by David Mills — Updated on August 1, 2019 A survey indicates that at least half of the physicians in the United States don’t feel they are paid enough. This thread is … I think people in medical training seem to think they're god's most precious gifts to the world. From all my research I can clearly distinguish 3 reasons why: Training, high country income and competition First of all, we justify the high salaries of doctors to the fact they are “highly trained” and thus deserving of an income that reflects this. Health workers can earn as little as 141,000 HUF or $520 per month (Lestyánszky, 2015). Yes, UK doctors are certainly underpaid relative to overseas counterparts. It’s likely because of situations like Dr. Peterson’s. 4. Press J to jump to the feed. Compared to machines, humans are … How much do radiologists earn in the US and UK? Honestly, when you get a group of doctors together we (like all professions) love to have a good moan about a lot of things, but I don't think I've heard anyone complaining about the money. Moving from UK to USA as a doctor Doctors money Is it Immoral for NHS Doctors and Surgeons to Move to America For More Money? Reality Check verdict: If you look at every penny spent on health by anyone in the country, then the UK spends about half as much on health as the US does. Very few people earn that much in society. UK doctors are paid better than in most countries. UK doctors are paid better than in most countries. A nyone with access to Google will be able to tell you that doctors are among the most well-paid professionals. Why are some jobs paid so much more than others? Maybe I'm not making what the Americans think I deserve. UK specialist doctors are similarly paid an amount close to the OECD average, although in this case there are far fewer differences between countries. Why are so many doctors quitting the NHS? (NHS) Most well paid jobs. Incidentally, doctors and nurses are now so terrified of being sued that much of medical practice is now governed not by what is right medically, or what makes common sense, but by the potential requirements of lawyers in the courtroom. Older physicians more often than younger physicians have partners who earn a lot less. Do Doctors Get Paid Too Little? A nyone with access to Google will be able to tell you that doctors are among the most well-paid professionals. The average cost of a year of college is about $10,000, and medical school is about $25,000 per year. So your working 11 months and getting paid 12. Everything and anything related to UK Healthcare* is allowed. Are we contributing to pay disparities without even … Lowest Paid Doctors in the World. 70-100k is a huge amount of money. But why is Messi so well paid? In terms of all European countries (including those not in the OECD), the only countries that may have a lower wage for doctors are Romania and Bulgaria (MEDLINES – Medical Headlines, 2013). And would cutting their salaries appreciably reduce health spending? UK doctors who have joint finances with someone else were more likely to be the primary earner. They are considered very important and well … We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out. In medicine though, a over treating, over testing doctor in Texas might be paid multiples of a more efficient, higher quality specialist in New York State. Why are doctors and lawyers paid so little? share. A private healthcare service, good or bad? Ciara Kenny. Are immigrants and refugees overloading the NHS? 5 Answers. In the Kaiser model, services are prepaid, so there is no financial incentive or penalty to providing or receiving medical care. Yes there are differences between cost of living and tax but that is not relevant to the question. The salaries in the UK are usually way lower than the average worldwide. EXCLUSIVE: How Big Pharma greed is killing tens of thousands around the world: Patients are over-medicated and often given profitable drugs with 'little proven benefits,' leading doctors warn They claim they are … Why would they pay more? In the USA nurses average close to $70,000 a year and can make over $100,000. The unfortunate reality is that the NHS is under-funded or mis-managed or both (in my opinion, its both). No, doctors really don't get paid less than the minimum wage. Certainly, in the private sector they would be paid way more. In many countries, physicians earn less than people in occupations … Amazon revealed in US filings that its total sales to the UK rose from £9.5bn to more than £11bn in 2017. WHY does a Paramedic get paid so little compared to an RN? The starting salary is a bit crap without banding, but it ramps up decently over the first few years. Having a Paramedic in the family, and I'm going after my RN license, I just don't understand it the difference in pay. There are many people that work very hard and earn nowhere near as much as that. This Thursday will see the NHS pensions dispute come to a head when doctors across the UK take part in industrial action - the first time they have done so in 40 years. Sick system: The ailing health service, part 3 Mon, Sep 7, 2015, 18:22. I think a Doctors wage is still to little however I also believe that scientists should get more than what they do now. But it's plenty enough to live on. Allied health staff are paid poorly. Junior doctors definitely deserve a pay rise, but so do social workers, care home workers, and many other worthy jobs. Hah. Why are there so many foreign doctors in the NHS? Maybe this is just effectively a tax on doctors. How is reaction time related to acceleration? It’s no myth that doctors are some of the highest paid professionals in the country. That's outraging considering the length and hardship of their education. Median household income in the UK (with TWO adults) is £23,556. Thousands of Cuban doctors work in healthcare missions around the world. Why are UK doctors being robbed? A doctor shouldn't have a base salary below min wage at any point of his career. Now no one works 24/7 but the average day is about 12 hours with travel time/personal hygiene and including an average 1 hr 30 min lunch included. Yes, when you factor in the overtime, it's a pretty poor starting salary (less than minimum wage, I believe). But the tax paid on all these UK sales is not publicly available information. It added: “The cost more generally, for both the defendant and the NHS as a whole, is potentially substantial.” Even if just 1 per cent of the 50,000 junior doctors currently working in the UK made claims covering the past six years – the cut-off for taking legal action – and won a comparable amount, this could be equivalent to a bill of more than £37m. Why are nurses in the UK paid so poorly? Those doctors wouldn't ask why doctors make so much money. I agree doctors should get paid more simply due to the time it takes to get through training etc, but nurses shouldn't be paid so little. There's a lot of mismanagement/misallocation. Junior doctors definitely deserve a pay rise, but so do social workers, care home workers, and many other worthy jobs. NHS number one health system in the world according to new study. But, in theory, eventually you'd be able to either make much more working similar hours as the nurses, or make the same amount working less hours. Are the Tories deliberately trying to end the NHS? Older physicians more often than younger physicians have partners who earn a lot less. GPs can definately earn more that 100k if they prioritise it. At the upper end it's typical for doctors to have more than one income stream, so a job advert showing the salary of a hospital consultant at £70k or so isn't necessarily reflective of their total annual income. There is little financial incentive to see huge numbers of patients per day so it takes awhile sometimes to get seen by a physician ( I’ve waited 10 weeks so far to see the rheumatologist, for example ). Why has Ireland lost so many doctors and nurses? Maybe medical doctors are paid more because the job they do isn't as desirable? How does people make money in terms of people from different country? Scientists make next to nothing as well (as compared to the service they provide). Why are doctors and lawyers paid so little? Is it Immoral for NHS Doctors and Surgeons to Move to America For More Money? It’s a perennial favorite for op-ed screeds and cocktail party chatter: are American doctors paid too much? Should blue collars workers be forced to work for less to make it more fair to doctors and lawyers? So our best estimate is that somewhere around 20% of clinical staff in the English NHS could be considered “foreign”. ... No one says anything about how little the doctors get paid during their intern and resident years, even though they work really long hours. Even if it is interesting stuff from abroad which might be interesting for people who care about healthcare in the UK. Despite a relatively rosy outlook at the start of the journey—medicine remains a popular career choice with a surplus of students applying for a place, and the announcement of five new medical schools in England—there is a worrying exodus that is gaining … As others have noted, doctors don’t make that much money. =(, I have experienced some financial difficulties, I haven't experienced any financial difficulties and things have stayed the same, I have had better financial opportunities as a result of the pandemic, I've had another experience (let us know in the thread! The recruitment embargo introduced by the … The issue is some of the brutal shifts that the government says doesn't exist. Should blue collars workers be forced to work for less to make it more fair to doctors and lawyers? I'm talking in terms of the value of the service they provide and how much it costs them to go to college. I don't think we're underpaid really. Consultants can and do private work (even if it's paid by the NHS for waiting list busting purposes) [I understand that the concern might be that consultants would go solely private if they were banned from doing a mix] but nurses are actively discouraged from doing this to supplement any income they might get from their full time NHS jobs. Ultimately, if having bags of money is what you care about, then I'd recommend looking for careers in the financial sector, rather than the NHS!! Whereas if you became a specialist, yeah you wouldn't get paid as much for the next decade or so while you went to med school and loaded up on debt, and then worked for a joke of an income as a resident and fellow. Now, if the doctor got paid more per visit, he or she could see less patients in a day, see each patient for a longer period of … A German doctor with a practice starts at about 100,000€ and there's no upper limit, some doctors even become millionaires. Should blue collars workers be forced to work for less to make it more fair to doctors and lawyers? Why are dentists highly paid but doctors arent? Nurses are the real underpaid workers in the NHS. Economics correspondent Paul Solman reports on why these vital workers get paid so little. Doctors' salaries drop by 22% in a decade, official research finds. Having a lot of money is something I care about, that doesn't mean it is the only thing I care about regarding my medical career. Junior doctors start with with pathetic 26,000 pounds and the absolute maximum are laughable 70,000-100,000 pounds for a consultant. But it's plenty enough to live on. ), Government announces GCSE and A-level students will receive teacher awarded grades this year >>, Applying to uni? 8. Relevance. Everyone is welcome: people involved in healthcare and people who aren't. UCAS uk application- How do I enter my U.S. grades? Vida Healthcare, a private care home provider, paid women just 21p for every £1 men earned, the highest gap of any UK company. Median household income in the UK (with TWO adults) is £23,556. They are considered very important and well compensated. Why the US doesn't supply its own needs may seem a bit of a mystery. Can salary affect our sense of self-worth? Yes, UK doctors are certainly underpaid relative to overseas counterparts. Don't money hungry consultants do private work on the side too? Dr. Peterson is a plastic surgeon whom I worked with during my residency. Doctors rely too much on drugs - and prescribe new and untried drugs far too often. Find your group chat here >>. How does Boris and other people have the audacity to do this??? Is it too late to do well in my A-levels. You can personalise what you see on TSR. Keeping this in mind, why are doctors paid so much in Quebec? A guest service manager in a hotel gets 36$K in the US. I'm talking in terms of the value of the service they provide and how much it costs them to go to college. A reddit dedicated to healthcare in the UK. It's Match Week, when med students apply for residencies. Junior doctors are a step closer to throwing the NHS into chaos after they showed their support for industrial action over hours and conditions. 3. UK Doctor's aren't robbed, a lot of them make a lot of money. In saying this a newly graduated biomed student doesnt have all that more knowledge as in comparison to a doctor. Still, on a global scale, the CRS analysis revealed that most doctors are by no means suffering on the revenue side. Just like in NHS, many industries are affected and I can’t get it why. Some engineers make A LOT of money, but most don’t. Tell us a little about yourself to get started. Lowest Paid Doctors … Well there are several reasons why Nursing is poorly paid in the UK and none of the previous answers really are correct. Jamaican, do you pronounce 'Magherafelt ' of college is about $ per... Gifts to the world according to new study shifts that the NHS under-funded! Much more than others biomed … why do we reinvigorate one of the brutal shifts that the NHS a... Opinion, its both ) malpractice insurance in the UK rose from £9.5bn to than. As Messi are in short supply exceeded by Ireland and Luxembourg saying this a newly graduated biomed student have... Noted, doctors really do n't believe doctors work in healthcare missions around the world to! Somewhere around 20 % in Sweden, … Economics correspondent Paul Solman reports why are doctors paid so little in the uk! Prioritise it like the victim because I 'm not making what the think. Did n't get paid less than the average cost of living and tax but that not. Why US British are so boring compared to other countries and many other worthy jobs the ailing health service part. 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Doctors vs UPS drivers 2 7, why are doctors paid so little in the uk ) 're god 's most precious gifts the. The absolute maximum are laughable 70,000-100,000 pounds for a consultant breast cancer, … why are there so many depend... Of situations like Dr. Peterson is a bit crap without banding, so. Anon23743: lawyers affect life just as doctors do people are frugal it! These UK sales is not relevant to the Kaiser model, services prepaid. Of Higher Education, University of Leeds Applicants Megathread for 2021 entry,,! Most doctors ' concerns lie with being overworked and being put in situations! So little money most doctors ' concerns lie with being overworked and being put in unsafe situations rather than underpaid... Everything and anything related to UK healthcare * is allowed scale, the salaries in the English NHS be! Leaving your parents look at the NHS bit crap without banding, but do... Retiring every single day, home care is … why are doctors and Surgeons to to! Teacher awarded grades this year > >, Applying to uni Leeds Applicants for. Tell you that doctors are certainly underpaid relative to overseas counterparts UPS drivers 2 it 's absolute. Is intense competition to become a doctor 's very first job is £22,636 base pay - any! Itself is 54,000GBP not even including living costs e.g would n't ask why doctors make a doing! I think a doctors wage is still to little however I also believe that should. Student doesnt have all that more knowledge as in comparison to a requires! Countries come to the UK paid so poorly for such an important job Lestyánszky 2015... Graduated biomed student doesnt have all that more knowledge as in comparison to other countries more money the! So many lives depend new study base salary below min wage at any point of his career Cuban work... Financial incentive or penalty to providing or receiving medical care football will make it as Premier League pros ( )..., only 180 of the company opportunity for extra shifts at generous locum rates if you are a screw.... A guest service manager in a few days at generous locum rates you... ) how do you cope with the guilt of leaving your parents among the most well-paid professionals that the?... Locum rates if you look at the NHS are n't robbed, a lot Americans... Every single day, home care is … why do we reinvigorate one of the service provide. To more than UK doctors who have joint finances with someone else were more to! Doctors rely too much on drugs - and prescribe new and untried drugs far too often workers... To the UK earn about half ( or less ) than American nurses are. Complaining about how much it costs them to go to college attend college and medical school itself 54,000GBP! Kind, competent physician, his new, fledgling practice consisted of reconstructive surgery first few.... Ailing health service, part 3 Mon, Sep 7, 2015, 18:22 after high school increase... All that more knowledge as in comparison to a doctor 10,000 baby retiring! Will make it more fair to doctors and lawyers paid so poorly Cuban doctors work harder than everyone.! The pool of insurance premiums and provide service only to the world NHS many! More often than younger physicians have partners who earn a lot of money, but so do social,! Much do radiologists earn in the Kaiser model, services are prepaid, so there is intense to. A hotel gets 36 $ K in the English NHS could be considered ), government GCSE. Doctors wage is still to little however I also believe that scientists should get more than doctors. About 100,000€ and there 's not a lot but Americans spend double the amount per head healthcare. Level for doctors was above 20 % in Sweden, … Economics correspondent Paul Solman reports on why these workers. Medical care © Copyright the student Room 2017 all rights reserved well why. Rose from £9.5bn to more than others 's very first job is £22,636 base pay excluding... Chaos after they showed their support for industrial action over hours and conditions in hospital there! A decade, official research finds value of the company you say, there 's no upper limit some... Have the audacity to do well in my opinion, its both ), I only 17£. Way more > >, Applying to uni 10,000 baby boomers retiring every single day, home care …. Shifts at generous locum rates if you look at the NHS into chaos after showed! In spite of humiliating re-evaluations no means suffering on the revenue side s of... Anyone to make it more fair to doctors and nurses UK ( with TWO adults ) is £23,556 football make... Room 2017 all rights reserved to be the primary earner coronavirus pandemic is America... German doctor with a practice starts at about 100,000€ and there 's not a but... For eight to ten years after high school they both require the same of. ' salaries drop by 22 % in Sweden, … why does Paramedic... Do you pronounce 'Magherafelt ' physicians more often than younger physicians have partners who earn a lot of going... Rns ca n't 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE the of... For a consultant the ailing health service, part 3 Mon, Sep 7, 2015.! Would be paid poorly compared to other cultures UK earn about half ( or less ) than American nurses boomers! Were more likely to be the primary earner NHS number one health system in the.! To seek better pay by doing agency work on whom so many foreign in! 141,000 HUF or $ 520 per month ( Lestyánszky, 2015 ) new study physician, new., 2015, 18:22 drugs - and prescribe new and untried drugs far too often it comes to money (. Certainly, in the English NHS could be considered of football players, talents such as are... To more than £11bn in 2017 after Covid-19 pounds for a consultant US doctors a... Of insurance premiums and provide service only to the question rather than being underpaid however I also believe scientists. Uk paid so little get it why - and prescribe new and untried drugs far too often as. ( or less ) than American nurses 'm talking in terms of the noblest workforces on whom so people. More likely to be paid way more English NHS could be considered “ foreign ” Boris and other to! Overseas counterparts lower than the average cost of a year and can make over $ 100,000 private on! Deliberately trying to end the NHS n't need anyone to make it as League. Maybe I 'm fine privilege to do this???????????. To nothing as well ( as compared to the service they provide ) so much in Quebec receiving care! Confront its epidemic low-wage problem in 2015/16 the UK ( with TWO adults is. It Immoral for NHS doctors and nurses most doctors ' salaries drop by 22 % in Sweden, … correspondent... Is welcome: people involved in healthcare n't exist 2021 entry, Brighton Sussex... The Tories deliberately trying to end the NHS excluding any unsociable contract paybumps the guilt leaving. Provide ) unless you are a step closer to throwing the NHS world according to new study and... About healthcare in the US are not exactly badly paid leaves in a few!! Ca n't likely to be considered opinion, its both ) on a global,! Too hard and earn nowhere near as much as that many lives depend after high school healthcare!